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Lord John LISLE (1609-1664) - #2 (52 Ancestors)

1/13/2015

26 Comments

 
Theme: King, connection to royalty
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Am I descended from Royalty?  No, I don’t think so.  But I believe that my 9G Grandfather was Lord John Lisle, born about 1609 in Wootton, Isle of Wight in England.  His rather infamous association with royalty is quite well documented in the history books, as he was one of Cromwell’s Lords involved in the regicide of King Charles I in  1649.  Perhaps this is something I shouldn’t be bragging about, but such is the lure of the famous and privileged, that any kind of connection counts!

One of the advantages of being connected to aristocracy and peerage is that their lives and lineages have been historically documented, hopefully with some degree of reliability.  So I will summarize John’s life here from these sources, and provide source links at the bottom for those eager to learn more.

I have documented my long descent from Lord John Lisle, as shown here in part (9G means 9 times great grandfather, etc.):

9G - Lord John LISLE (1609-1664) m Lady Alice BECONSHAWE (1617-1685)
8G - Margaret LISLE (1643-1686) m Robert WHITAKER (1637-1683)
7G - Jeremiah WHITAKER (1679-1719) m Ann HASKELL (aft 1681-1718)
6G - Jeremiah WHITAKER (c1707) and Joanna KITTIER (c1710)
5G - Joanna WHITAKER (1730-1790) m Arthur NEWMAN (c1727-1785)
4G - Charlotte Lisle NEWMAN (1760-1789) m Col Harry Childeroy COMPTON (1759-1839)
3G - Major Thomas COMPTON (c1789-1850) m Hannah JEFFERY (1790-1871) …

The Compton line continues in PEI, Canada to which my mother, Mabel Marion ANDREW, has multiple connections.
John Lisle was the son of Sir William Lisle and Bridget Hungerford who married in Ellingham Hampshire in 1598.  The name Lisle is short for “de Insula” or “de L’Isle” which refers the Isle of Wight on the south coast of England where this prominent family settled in about the 12th century.  Like many of his ancestors, John was a lawyer and a politician, graduating from Oxford in 1626 and called to the bar in 1633.  He was elected MP for Winchester, and in Parliament in Dec 1644, he was chairman of the committee that investigated Cromwell's allegations against the Earl of Manchester.  In 1648 after the second civil war, John Lisle voted against continuing negotiations with the King.  Shortly thereafter he was appointed a commissioner of the High Court of Justice for the trial of the King in January 1649.  During the trial he acted in an advisory position and helped to draw up the King’s sentence, but he was not a signatory of the King’s death warrant.  He then helped frame the new constitution for the Commonwealth, and was one of five appointed to the new Council of State.  He was also made a commissioner of the Great Seal.  In 1653 he administered the oath of office when Cromwell became Lord Protector, and became a member of the Upper House in 1657 (aka "Cromwell’s House of Lords”).  But the tides turned and in 1659 he was dismissed from office and forced to flee the country.  In August 1664, as he was leaving a church service at Lausanne Switzerland, John Lisle was shot dead by an Irish Royalist known as Thomas MacDonnell.

John was obviously an ambitious man with strong convictions, who found himself in the centre of all this intrigue and controversy.  Depending on who you read, he was described as having a “reputation for acquisitiveness and sharp practice” or “as President of this [High Court of Justice] he is said to have been 'the most unpopular character in the kingdom’ and 'noted for his idleness and profligacy, and never had any practice or knowledge of the law. ... He was bold, bustling, confident, and unscrupulous’.  These contradictory accounts are another indication of the polarization and upheaval in England during this period.

John married twice, first to Elizabeth Hobart , daughter of Lord Chief Justice Hobart, who died in 1633 due to childbirth complications.  Then in 1636 he married Alice Beconshaw of Ringwood Hampshire and they had as many as 12 children (depending on the source).  Due to the rise and fall of John’s career, his family certainly went from a position of wealth, power and influence to one of disinheritance and ruined status and reputations.  One can’t help but feel sorry for them.

On a final note, there are over 20,000 people on ancestry.com who have added John Lisle to their tree.  So they're sure to be my distant cousins ! ;o)  I wonder if any of them will find this posting?

Sources and further reading:
"John Lisle, Regicide" Bio, British civil war site 
'The Regicides", BCW Project site
"John Lisle" - Wikipedia
Sir John Lisle (1366-1408), History of Parliament site [his ancestor and heritage]
The Complete Peerage, Appendix G, p622 on John Lisle (
Burke’s Dormant and Extinct Peerages),
Forgotten Books site
History, De Insula of Wodyton c.1080 – 1837, Wootton Bridge Historical site
26 Comments
Elizabeth H. link
1/22/2015 02:55:01 am

I found your post at the 52 Ancestors link. I have a James Lysle in my family tree. See my <a href="http://frommainetokentucky.blogspot.com/2013/04/surname-saturday-lysle-of-pennsylvania.html">Surname Saturday post</a> and <a href="http://frommainetokentucky.blogspot.com/2013/05/treasure-chest-thursday-printed-193738.html">my post about a printed family tree</a> which includes "Johannes de Insula, (1314-15 A. D.) (John of the Isles) L'Isle - de Lisle - Lisle - Lyle - Lysle" in the header. I just haven't figured out how to link my James Lysle to this John Lisle, but I guess this makes us very distant cousins!

Reply
Elizabeth H. link
1/22/2015 02:56:25 am

I guess html in the comments doesn't work at this blog. Hopefully you can figure out the links.

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Claudia Boorman
1/23/2015 09:37:33 am

Thanks for your comments, Elizabeth, and yes I have figured out your links - most interesting, but your family tree graphic is too small to read :( It would be nice if we are connected, even though your line took on the spelling Lysle. I don't have easy access to Burke's Peerage, but I did find his lineage also outlined on the Wootton Bridge Historical site - http://woottonbridgeiow.org.uk/deinsula.php - does it give you any clues?

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ElizabethH. link
1/24/2015 05:10:40 am

Sorry - I didn't realize that the graphic didn't enlarge when you click on it. Unfortunately, except for the maternal ancestor at the far left, Mary Wilson 1763-1849, (James Lysle's wife), there are NO dates for anyone else, just names. The family story is that James changed the spelling of his name from Lisle. My problem is how to link this James Lysle to the line found at that website you shared.

Thank you very much for sharing that link - very interesting!

Linda link
2/27/2015 02:02:37 pm

I found it too!. Very nice site. I've done a great deal of research on my Lisle line, going back through Bridget Hungerford's mother, Mary Berkeley well into the 10th century. I was delighted to find tons of documentation on that branch of John's family in Encyclopedia, numerous books, copies of parish records and even Wikipedia! Historyofparliamentonline.org has a great deal on the Lisles too.
Nice to meet you, cousin!

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Erin link
3/22/2015 10:59:51 am

Thank you for publishing your family research! As another descendent of the Comptons, your blog and your well-documented family tree are thrilling to go through and have helped fill in my own tree, to boot. I look forward to following along with future posts!

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Claudia Boorman
3/23/2015 07:49:31 am

Hi Erin - thanks for the positive comments. We are likely 4th cousins once removed :) I have sent you a private email to discuss this further - hope to hear back from you.

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Richard Harvey
1/12/2017 07:21:01 pm

If you are a descendant of John Lisle, Esq., Regiside, you are definitely descended from Royalty. His 9th great grandfather is Prince John "of Gaunt" de Plantagenet; son of HRH Edward III de Plantagenet.

Reply
Claudia Boorman
1/12/2017 11:01:15 pm

Thanks for pointing this out, Richard. I obviously hadn't pursued John's mother's line back far enough - Bridget Hungerford seems to be the royal descendant rather than his father's Lisle ancestors. I see that someone has posted a descent for John Lisle all the way back to Edward III, King of England on findagrave, but they claim it was through Edward's son Thomas Plantagenet, Earl of Gloucester, rather than Prince John. I obviously need to check this out more thoroughly.

Although there's no chance of any royal autosomal DNA remaining in my generation, it's intriguing to contemplate the kinship never-the-less :)

Are you also connected to this Lisle line?

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Carol M
7/7/2017 07:03:25 pm

Hi Erin,

I found your posting. Thank you Lord John was my 10th great grandfather. We are related!

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Chad Evans
6/18/2018 04:59:52 pm

Lord John Lisle is my 11th Great-Grandfather, residing in Florida but originally from Michigan and Kentucky

Reply
Claudia Boorman
6/18/2018 11:40:17 pm

Hi Chad - I just sent you a private email, hoping to find out more about your descent from Lord John Lisle. Thanks for finding my blog post!
Claudia

Nathaniel Edwards
11/15/2017 11:25:58 pm

John Lisle is my 8th Great Grandfather...through the Whitaker line on my Grandmother's side.

Digging through the whole of my family tree has been interesting and insightful as it draws breath to history and allows one to stumble on historical realities far removed from where one may stand presently.

To think about one's ancestors and how they forwarded themselves through us in some small way.


Anyhow, this makes us distant cousins. Thank you for the insightful website and nice to run across others who also find genealogy fascinating.

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Brent Wilkinson
10/16/2018 08:26:36 pm

I also trace my family back to Lord John Lisle
I wonder how many thousands do?

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Brent Wilkinson
10/16/2018 09:10:04 pm

Just went to family tree, it appear my 9th grandmother if that makes sense. Family line runs to Newsteads of York .
Ann Joanna Newstead marries Rev John Wilkinson

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Linda S.
7/7/2019 06:17:26 am

I am also a descendant of Rev. John Wilkinson and Anna Joanna Newstead. I have connected via DNA. John Lisle and Alice Beconshawe are my 9th great grandparents. My mom was born a Wilkinson.

Brent Wilkinson
7/7/2019 06:49:35 am

I was lucky enough to visit Rev John Seniors grave in Alne a few years ago. Sadly the headstone is falling into disrepair.

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Cara toland
9/8/2019 02:20:19 pm

Hi, lovely post. I am abit late in finding this online though. My partner of 13 years father to my children. John lisle is his 11th great grandfather i took this back to Royality, I've seen someone already pointed this out to you too. I didn't carry on that back at the time too because to be honest, going this far back it because unbelievable! I've re done his family line 3 times to insure I'm doing it right! Getting him to do a dna test this year so we can have proof with all the family trees on ancestry. You will be able to find me on ancestry under Berylbeard. The tree should be one with surname MALE.

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Olivia
10/16/2019 04:37:05 am

This is all helpful , iv just started my research uni my family tree. My name is Olivia lisle from Yorkshire so I’m interestedly in finding extra

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Heather Hemming
5/16/2022 03:15:25 am

John Lisle is my 8th great Uncle. His brother, Sir William Lisle fathered Edward Lisle. His 1st son, Edward had no children. His 2nd son Charles Lisle inherited Moyles Court, Ellingham, Ringwood, Hampshire. His daughter, Susan married Thomas March Phillipps and their son was Edward Dawson of Whatton fathered Henry Dawson, who fathered Arthur Finch Dawson of Barrowhill who fathered Bertram Finch Dawson who was my grandfather on my mother's side. Thank you for your helpful research and the direction to "Find a grave" with ancestry back to Edward III. You can find a bit more on en.wikisource and Moyles Court.

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Claudia Boorman
5/16/2022 01:16:39 pm

Great to meet you Heather, and learn of your descent. Thanks for finding my website and for your kind words. It sounds like we're very distant cousins.

I admit I have not delved into the descendants of Sir John Lisle's siblings, although I have tentative names for 8 of them including your William who perhaps married Mary Lowe?

Anytime I see a male line name change I wonder what the story behind it is. You mention you ancestor Susan Lisle who married a Phillips and then had a son with the surname Dawson. How did Phillips become Dawson?

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Heather Hemming
5/17/2022 02:05:52 am

You are quite right about William Lisle marrying Mary Lowe. Name changes occur with daughters. Charles Lisle (d.1777) married Ann Carey and their daughter, Susan Lisle (1758-1838) married Thomas March Phillipps (1747-1817) and his daughter Susan March Phillipps (1778-1853) married Edward Dawson of Whatton (1778-1815).my 3rd great grandfather.

Claudia Boorman
5/17/2022 11:47:59 am

Thanks Heather for the added information and correction - there are 2 different Susan's in a row, not 1. And your Edward Dawson was the son-in-law who married the 2nd Susan (Susan March Phillips). Makes sense now:) Have you posted your tree online anywhere that could fill in further details?

Heather Hemming
5/18/2022 04:00:52 am

I haven't posted my tree on line but have been using "Geni" to get my basic family tree. I then check and am making notes of interesting ancestors that I can find on "Google" or elsewhere.

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David Philip WHITE link
12/3/2022 01:41:36 am

Like many others I also have been tracing my WHITE family tree over the last 30yrs. I have now discovered that Dame Alice Lisle nee Beconshaw was my 2nd cousin 11x removed. I feel a visit to Ellingham coming on. Good Hunting

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Heather Hemming
12/3/2022 02:00:37 am

If you visit Winchester, you can find a plaque on the museum wall commemorating the site of Alice Lisle's beheading. The last woman in England to be beheaded. You could also visit the Lisle ancestral home, Moyles Court, in the New Forest. It is now a school which commemorates Alice Lisle every September.

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    Authors

    Terry and Claudia Boorman have been interested in their family history since the 1980s.  They live in Victoria BC Canada.

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